Following your logic, then, the local Priest, Pastor, Reverend, Parson, Rabbi, Imam etc. can be an avowed practicing homosexual, or an adulterer actively involved with another woman (or man, in the case of my denomination which has female priests), or drug addict, or alcoholic, or Satan worshipper on the side etc.Of course a homosexual should be allowed to be a Priest! They would take a vow of celibacy just like everyone else. (Although that’s a whole different topic.) However: equating homosexuality (which has no moral component) with drug addiction or alcoholism (which has a huge moral and ethical impact on the active alcoholic/addict) is just wrong. They are utterly different things, and don't belong on the same list. I may not be gay, but I am an alcoholic. I know what I'm talking about on this one.
After all, we are all sinners. That shouldn’t have anything to do with our lives or what we want for ourselves, right? And all sins are the same. Having a lustful fantasy about a girl in your High School class is surely on the same par with actually raping her. Right?That’s just a fucked up and senseless thing to say, Clay. I don’t believe that at all, and you don’t either. No other comment required. It's wrong by definition. If you believe what you wrote above, just say: "I believe fantasy and action are identical." Man. And as a side note, I wouldn't equate a "lustful fantasy" with "rape fantasy," although apparently you do. Ick.
Obviously, homosexuals can’t reproduce. Therefore, they are a dying breed, so to speak. Allowing them to adopt children, who aren’t necessarily homosexual themselves, only threatens to expand the amount of human extinction.Clay, where do you get this stuff? “Expand the amount of human extinction?” Somehow I don’t sense that the extinction of the human race due to lack of reproduction as an impending threat. Feel free to document otherwise. Really. Now, I don't actually think that having gay parents means that you're more likely to be gay... but I don't really care, either. Again, feel free to document otherwise.
While I am no fan of Evolution per say, It seems quite obvious that in the interest of the preservation of the human race, homosexual indoctrination of children is probably not a good idea.No fan of evolution per se? Are you saying evolution is incorrect? Spelling errors aside, even the Catholic church is pro-evolution. And once again: I'm pretty sure that underpopulation isn't an issue on this planet.
I am all for their right to co-habitate. I draw the line at parenthood. A child needs both a mother and a father. That is nature’s way, and we would do well to respect it.Do you think that gay people were invented by giant space caterpillars? All because they are the minority, that doesn’t mean they aren’t natural. Do you think left-handed people are unnatural, too?
And besides: I have a sneaking suspicion that you drive a car, ride in airplanes and wear clothes. Why? Because nature gave you the capacity to do so. In the same way that nature gave gay people the capacity to be loving parents. If you think that gays shouldn’t be parents, then you should stop doing, wearing, and using anything that doesn’t come out of your own ass. Or mouth. Or nose. Or ears. Pick your orifice. After all, you're denying people the right to do something they have the capacity to do well, all because it's not "natural."
Okay. I'm done.
Love to all. Even you, the receptionist at the Washington Square Hotel.
14 comments:
I guess(following that logic-assuming you want to call it logic) that also means as soon as a couple with children find the need for a divorce their children should be whisked away and sent to a propper home with a mother and a father, right?
You sure do get some doozies in the comment dept, dontcha?
PS I am a lefty, please don't tell the DPS. [sob] I'm really not fit to be a mother.
Um, Clay? All the other stuff aside, allowing homosexuals to adopt doesn't do thing one to either hasten or slow down what you are saying is their march toward extinction. If gays are a dying breed from an evolutionary standpoint (and I don't for a minute think it's that simple), then they're dying whether or not they adopt. Evolution says that to survive over generations, you have to pass on your genes. You don't get to pass your genes on to an adoptive child, hence the lack of impact adoption would have on evolution--aside, that is, from allowing the adopted child to survive and pass on his or her genes, which are not the homosexual parents' genes.
It's simple evolutionary biology, bud.
Aren't children supposed to look up to their parents as role models.
If a kid has two gay fathers and sees them in sleeping in bed, isn't he automatically (at 4-5 years old) going to want to do the same thing with his friends...
that's gross just thinking about it... Brockback Mountain and all...
Rich,
You said:
"Of course a homosexual should be allowed to be a Priest! They would take a vow of celibacy just like everyone else. (Although that’s a whole different topic.) However: equating homosexuality (which has no moral component) with drug addiction or alcoholism (which has a huge moral and ethical impact on the active alcoholic/addict) is just wrong. They are utterly different things, and don't belong on the same list."
I happen to agree with you on the celibacy vow allowing a homosexual to be a priest.
But, that aside, your attempt to make it look like my argument is invalid because I am comparing "utterly different things" hinges upon just accepting your notion that homosexuality is not immoral as fact.
You may choose to believe that is not immoral, but the Bible that your denomination of Christianity and mine uses has alot to say differently on this topic.
Because I believe that the Bible represents God's view on morality, I'm obliged to follow it on this issue.
So, I don't share your moralty take on homosexuality, so I'm not going to be able to cede your argument of "utterly different things" as necessarily true.
You said:
"That’s just a fucked up and senseless thing to say, Clay. I don’t believe that at all, and you don’t either. No other comment required. It's wrong by definition. If you believe what you wrote above, feel free to comment "I believe fantasy and action are identical." Man."
Of course I don't beleive it. You must have missed my point. I was responding to your "we are all sinners therefore, it is hypocritical of Christians to not believe that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt" argument. I was simply taking that view of yours out to its logical conclusion.
The fact that you took exception with it proves my point. You can't have it both ways. Either all sins are equal, or there are in fact differences, hence, Christians who feel that way aren't so hypocritical after all.
You said:
Clay, where do you get this stuff? “Expand the amount of human extinction?” Somehow I don’t sense that the extinction of the human race due to lack of reproduction as an impending threat. Feel free to document otherwise. Really. Now, I don't actually think that having gay parents means that you're more likely to be gay... but I don't really care, either. Again, feel free to document otherwise."
Ok, I'll admit that the ackward phrase "expand the amount of human extinction" was not the best choice of words. I don't see the extinction of the human race due to lack of reproduction to be pressing either. That wasn't my point. You seem to be good at extracting points that you think I am making and characterizing my arguement that way.
I was illustrating a fact regarding the inability of homosexual humans to reproduce.
Obviously, if they can't produce any offspring to continue their lineage they die and their DNA dies with them.
In nature, survival of species depends upon the species' success of reproducing itself. Homosexuality goes againt the natural way of things.
I was pointing out that fact, I certainly wasn't positing the end of the human race, merely because homosexuals can't reproduce.
You said:
"No fan of evolution per se? Are you saying evolution is incorrect? Spelling errors aside, even the Catholic church is pro-evolution. And once again: I'm pretty sure that underpopulation isn't an issue on this planet."
Ok. So you are going to be anal about misspellings. Whatever.
Yes I am saying that I don't believe that evolution is correct. Evolution is a theory. And there are plenty of books and papers out their to read from scientist who don't subscribe to it, and demonstrate the many holes in the theory that make it less credible as scientific dogma, (which according to the nature of science itself, is something that should not exist. Science is runs on hypothesis' and theories, not dogma).
That the fact that even the Catholic Church is pro-evolution is irrelevant to me. I am not a Catholic and so I am not obligated to subscribe the Catholic Church's view on the Theory of Evolution.
As for the issue of underpopulation on this planet, like I said before, I don't think it is an issue either. So it's a useless point to make, unless you are trying to talk to a third party with that statement.
You said:
"Do you think that gay people were invented by giant space caterpillars? All because they are the minority, that doesn’t mean they aren’t natural. Do you think left-handed people are unnatural, too?"
What's with the giant space caterpillars? I never cited homosexuals as being a minority. And, not only did I never make such a statement about them, I also didn't use the fact that they were a minority to illustrate why homosexuality runs counter to the natural order of life on Earth.
Once again, you are trying to use something I didn't say to somehow validate your position and ridicual mine. That's very disengenous of you. It's bad form.
Left handed people aren't natural? Why would you say that? Is it because they are a minority? If that is what you are saying then it you who is is using the minority angle to determine what is natural. Besides, what is there to say that left-handedness runs counter to nature? Nature produces left-handed people. Right? By the way, I am left-handed, and I have never felt odd in any way just because I am a southpaw. ; )
You said:
"And besides: I have a sneaking suspicion that you drive a car, ride in airplanes and wear clothes. Why? Because nature gave you the capacity to do so. In the same way that nature gave gay people the capacity to be loving parents. If you think that gays shouldn’t be parents, then you should stop doing, wearing, and using anything that doesn’t come out of your own ass. Or mouth. Or nose. Or ears. Pick your orifice. After all, you're denying people the right to do something they have the capacity to do well, all because it's not "natural."
Ok. You've lost me now. I have no idea what you are going on about.
Emily,
Your opinon of what is logic aside,
I'm going to assume that by saying you are "a lefty" that you mean you are a leftist. Your fears of the DPS taking your child away, are unfounded. The DPS is a product of the left (ie. socialists). So I can't possibly see any problems there.
If you meant that by being "a lefty" that you use your left hand predominately (i.e. when you write, eat, brush your teeth etc.)
then there really is'nt any way to respond to that.
tc,
You have missed my point.
i didn't get the memo. who/what is determining 'natural order of things' nowadays. i dare not say the bible with so many inherent contradictions. possibly politicians, but there are always lobbyists.
i'll try to google whoever it is.
clay is funny. i wish i had more time to join the verbal melee, but i'll pop in from time to time to make sure you kids are keeping it clean and relevant.
I agree with you. It is unfortunate that people will try to use a moral or religious view to push or even legislate their views on others.
They have the self richious views to think they are right and everyone else is wrong and I'm going to "protect" the world by passing these laws to "protect" some one, or "prevent" something.
Certain groups (I don't have to go into detail, just look at enough lobbyist groups) will say that it's against nature and not even have a clue of what actually occurs in animal populations or other cultures.
Let these groups actually come out and say what they mean instead of trying to hide behind some other cause.
Now on another tangent of the same line. I'm really against lobbist groups that hide who's behind them or sponsoring them. I think there needs to be must more strict disclosure laws too.
Oh my gosh Rich! This guy is killing me! I'm impressed that you can try to have an intelligent conversation with him. He just infuriates me.
I'd like to kind of go with Emily...Is Clay saying that any child that doesn't have a mom and a dad is disadvantaged? What does that mean for single parents? I had a mom and a dad, but I can tell you that based on the abuse in my house I'd of been a lot better off with 2 loving moms or 2 loving dads. AND... I assure you that I'd still be straight regardless of my "raising."
Which leads me to ask... If homosexual parents are going to so obviously produce a homosexual child then HOW are heterosexual parents producing homosexual children? Please enlighten me.
Okay someone doesn't understand how the survival of a species works in regard to evolution at all, and I'm not going into that.
As for Homosexuals being a dying race. Guess they've been dying since the begining of time huh? Why are they still around? Again, it has nothing to do with evolution, but genetics.
The latest evidence shows that the genetic gay factors are actually passed down by women, yup it comes from the mother's side of the family. There is your answer to how straight people have gay children and why homosexuals haven't died out because they can't reproduce. Blame it on the women, it appears that they are passing the gay gene down. As long as women keep having babies there will be gay people.
First time visitor to your blog...
Explain how you can be a pro-gay, pro-Choice Catholic? Wouldn't proclaiming yourself a Catholic just be an oxymoron?
Just wondering.
Let me answer to TexasWonder (not that Rich needs help but why not): where does it say that all Catholics are supposed to follow some other people's (not Jesus'!) dogma? It looks to me that only regular "sheep" didn't read that anywhere, but even quite a few "shepherds" didn't either, when they decided to molest boys. Oh wait, that makes these Catholic priests gay, doesn't it? Hm...
And where does Jesus (not the bible written by who-knows-who) say gays should burn in hell? I must have missed that part
FYI (no, I'm not gay): http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/23/MNGAOHSE4I1.DTL
My 2 cents: Homesexuality isn't just a human thing. It is also seen in the animal kingdom (of which we are apart despite our tendancy to think otherwise). Someone once explained to me that it was nature's birth control and I agree with that sentiment. I'm not gay but homosexulity is not a disease or some sign of moral decay and any child adopted into a home with same sex parents isn't going to "catch it".
I really truly don't understand what the hullaballoo is all about. The orphanages are overflowing with children who need parents. So (Clay) are you saying that it is better that they grow up parentless than with a pair of loving gay parents? That's like saying a white child is better off in an orphanage than being adopted by black parents because they might turn black. Weird...
Indigo Black,
No. I'm not saying that it is better for a child to grow up in an orphanage than being adopted by gay parents. That is a conclusion that you are drawing from what I have posted. But, since you've mentioned it, the problem of the number of children in orphanages is certainly not going to be solved by gay adoptions.
There are lots of couples who wish to adopt but can't, or are on long waiting list.
I don't see gay adoptions doing much to solve the problem.
I don't think you firmly have a grasp on the realities of adoption in this country.
The waiting list for adoption, the long one you cite, is for a white baby.
Do you not wonder why so many couples are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get that white looking child from another country? Because they don't want a todler or grown child and they don't want a non-white baby.
If there is anyone out there willing to adopt any child, race or age, why should they be denied? You may not think it will solve the problem of the number of kids in orphaneges, but one less kid is a start.
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