For the last few months, I've tried to engage two conservatives in rational conversation about Iraq, the ACLU, etc. One of them, I've decided, acts as a parrot for the other. So I'm dismissing that dude retroactively. The other has reduced his arguments to "I don't believe you."
As in:
Me: I believe troop strength at the start of the invasion of Iraq should have been 300% the size it was.That's a dead end for me. I mean, can you think of a better way to say "Fuck you" than to call someone a liar? I can't. Other than, of course, "Fuck you."
Him: I don't believe you actually believe that.
Are we really that polarized? Is there no room for discussion without insults and sarcasm? Increasingly, it seems not. It's sad.
A friend of mine pointed out today how Newt Gingrich is an incredibly smart dude who totally knows his shit... he pointed out that, while in Congress, Newt got caught up in the expediency of throwing bombs instead of working things out. And it worked for him, for a while. But in the end, it did him in.
As a country, we have to stop resorting to saying utterly useless things like "Liberals hate the military." Or "Liberals hate America." Let's talk about individual issues. One at a time.
Sensibly.
Love to all. Even you, the honorable hypocrite.
11 comments:
I heard one today that I didn't even understand....
I accidentally landed on Michael Savage's radio show as I was flipping through stations on the car ride home. I only caught enough of it to hear him say, "All liberals think that poverty creates nobility.... That poverty makes you noble."
Huh? It does? We do?
To be fair, it should be acknowledged that just as much mud is slung at the Right by the Left.
Example: "Conservatives are fascists."
Before you ask, no, I am not a conservative. I am an independent with relatively extreme views on both sides of the spectrum (and a few perpendicular).
Good luck!
But most Conservatives ARE fascists. Just look at Bill O'Reily, Dick Cheney, Anne Coulter, or Tucker Carlson. These people would make Mussolini look like an angel!
As a liberal living within the military community, I really do believe that we are that polarized. And those in the military really do believe that just because they are in the military they MUST be conservative and/or vote Republican.
I've taken to wearing my "Hillary -- the next BUSH in the White House" shirt to pick up my daughter from preschool at the base chapel. It goes over about as well as a cow pie at a bake sale. And I love it. That, for me, is feelin' the love.
"But most Conservatives ARE fascists. Just look at Bill O'Reily, Dick Cheney, Anne Coulter, or Tucker Carlson. These people would make Mussolini look like an angel!"
Do you really think those clowns represent the broad spectrum of ordinary conservative Americans any more than Al Franken or Penn Jillette represent Joe Liberal?
FD: Exactly. I believe there are lots of people in the middle of the road, but they either aren't or cannot be, particularly vocal.
I agree, Rich. The vocal ones are the extremists. The rest of us keep quiet so as not to start an argument that will only question our thoughts and accomplish nothing.
I think what needs to happen is that we need to stop slinging mud and look at the facts, and realize that we're all Americans, we all love the millitary folks out there gettin it done, (even if we don't suport the idea of them being in Iraq) and there are some serious issues here at home that need to be dealt with the smart way, which is the one not based on bias or money.
An opinion is just that, you can't tell someone their opinion is wrong! it just doesn't work that way!
Gina:
I agree with everything except the last part: some opinions ARE wrong.
What makes ME nuts is when I say "this is my opinion," and a nutjob says "no, that is NOT your opinion."
Rich,
Sorry you had a run in with some of the less intelligent members of my side of the political spectrum. Of course, I have run ins with the less intelligent members of your side too. One can be a conservative or a liberal and be polite and respectful to the other side. But I have to agree with you. As a free-market loving, big government hating, social welfare despising libertarian I have been called every name in the book and personally insulted more times than I care to remember. Funny thing is that you and I probably agree on the desirable items we want for society. I think we disagree on the means to achieve those ends.
Doug -
We probably don't agree on a LOT of things... where I draw the line is when someone says "I don't believe that YOU believe what you are saying." Once one side of the discussion declares that they are actually BOTH sides of the discussion... well, there's nothing to do.
That's what frustrated me about those folks. They actually said "You don't believe what you say you believe."
Ick, ick, ick.
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